patching...
Welcome back, Patch Blogger!

Was it Right to Force a Ban of Prayer Before a High School Game?

A Georgia school district has banned prayer before games after the threat of a lawsuit by a Wisconsin-based organization.

 

A Wisconsin-based organization threatened Haralson County School District in Georgia with a lawsuit should it continue to pray before school sports. In response, the school district pulled the prayer.

According to Foxnews, the organization, Freedom From Religion Foundation, sent a letter to the school saying that sanctioned prayers violate students’ First Amendment Rights. The lawsuit reportedly applies to all school sponsored events. As a result, the school district has halted all prayer over public announcement speakers. Groups, however, were reported to have prayed in individual circles before Friday night’s football game.

So what do you think? Was the organization right to bring the lawsuit against the school district? Or do you think this is this a misinterpretation of the words "Freedom of Religion" in the Constitution.

Related Topics: prayer in schools and question of the day

Tammy Osier

8:59 am on Sunday, September 9, 2012

A public school is just that-public. Different entities in the community can use its facilities over the weekend if they choose. When people get together for a game, they can choose how to open it if they want to. The leadership can't put it into policy that they "have" to open with prayer, but they can if they want to. That makes it voluntary. By the same token, they can't ban it either. If the groups as a whole get together ane decide that they will forego the prayer, then they can stop doing it - if they want to. I don't think they can find a legal precedent for it. I think it's just a waste of time and wish these "groups" would find something better to do with their time.

Reply

joe scott

12:08 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

A bunch of GUTLESS school board member. They should of told them where to go. This is Georgia not Wisconsin.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris

12:18 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

It has nothing to do with Wisconsin or Georgia. You are calling someone gutless for following the law. If they continue to pray over the speakers, they will be sued and they will lose. Then, they will stop praying over the speakers AND the taxpayers will have to pay the law suit. What is gutless about that?

Comment_arrow

Racer X

7:41 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Chris- It has EVERYTHING to do with Wisconsin or Georgia. Having a prayer before a game in no way forces anyone to pray. It may force someone to give others a moment to pray but that is called MANNERS, which is something the whole country could use more of.
I am not a church goer but even I can see that.

Eric

12:48 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

prayers violate students’ First Amendment Rights. What about the majority that what the prayers, I think their rights are violated.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris

12:53 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

No they were not. They are still praying. Just not over the speaker.

Comment_arrow

Racer X

7:46 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

I am pretty sure first amendment rights are not limited by the use of a speaker system. If one does not wish to pray, they can at least give those who feel it is important a moment to do so. One can close his/her eyes and think of Obama, or a goat, or whatever, for a few seconds while others are doing what is ideologically important to them.

Comment_arrow

bill valentine

10:10 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

AMEN ERIC! "PRAYER IN SCHOOLS". GUNS WERE BROUGHT TO SCHOOLS,BUT NO KILLINGS......"NO PRAYER IN SCHOOLS" GUNS WERE BROUGHT TO SCHOOLS,KIDS AND TEACHERS WERE SHOT ,SOME DIED.KNIVES WERE BROUGHT TO SCHOOLS,STUDENTS,TEACHERS STABBED................................................GO FIGURE! TAKE PRAYER OUT OF OUR DAILY LIVES, BE IT AT SCHOOL OR ELSEWHERE AND WE WILL FALL LIKE THE WALLS OF JERICO...TUMBLING DOWN.

Fed UP!!!!!

1:06 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

As much as people do not like this....It is in the constitution remember "Seperation of Church and State".. Would you feel the same way if someone opened up with a prayer to Allah (Muslim) or praying to Buddah??? This is the reason for the law. Would you want a teacher other than the religion you choose to teach your child a prayer that your religion does not believe in. It's parents responsbility to teach your childrens spirituality at home/church and not in the PUBLIC education system. Another problem is parents thinking it's the responsility of the public education system to basically raise their children, ie. transportation, breakfast/lunches, etc.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Floyd Akridge

9:56 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

WHAT? why don't you try READING the Constitution. You will ********************NOT******************** find the concept of seperation of church and state. It is not there. Notice that the words Seperation, Church and State are *****NOT***** in the first amendment? Perhaps you should read George Washington's Farewell Address and see what he said about the subject. I bet you aren't even aware where the seperation of church and state even came from (incorrectly I might add).

Joemamaknows

1:25 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

I think the people in Wisconsin need to stay at home. I seriously doubt someone from Haralson County contacted them. They hunt up situations like this to bully people of faith and communities of faith and we allow it because the silent majority is still silent. But communities of faith are growing tired of this violation of their religious freedom.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris

1:35 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

No one's religious freedom has been violated.

Comment_arrow

Racer X

7:53 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Actually Chris, yes it has. If this were about a prayer to Allah in a predominately Muslim neighborhood it would be the same thing, only then the ACLU would be all over it protecting them. The difference is that Southerners would never have the bad manners to disrespect them by asking them not to do it.

Comment_arrow

George Wilson

4:35 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@Joemamaknows
This is a national organization with chapters in Georgia.

Tammy Osier

2:57 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Fed up - separation of church and state does not exist in the sense that people use it. Sigh. Here is is again:
C-O-N-G-R-E-S-S shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Congress has nothing to do with what people do at a ball game. And hte schools are safe there. I'm pretty sure te principal doesn't open the school day in prayer. If the ficticious town of Yorkshire had mostly buddists that made up their community, and they wanted to start their school game off in prayer, they could. But in a town where most are christians and that has been the tradition for a long time, the government cannot (according to the 1st amendment) step in and tell them what to do. If a president and congress suddenly tell the people of our country "convert or be taxed or killed" , then we have a problem. No one is being coersed by the government. Just some bozo's that have nothing better to do than stir up trouble.
In my opinion, the kind of people that if a real crisis fell upon them, they'd be too incompetent to do anything because all they do is sit around and moan and groan for a living (which doesn't equip you to do much of anything of value).

Reply
Comment_arrow

Grant

4:02 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Wrong again Tammy ...
laws apply equally to all and cannot be ignores due to a "majority".

The actual law of the land reads

" Nor may teachers, school administrators and other school employees, when acting in their official capacities as representatives of the state, encourage or discourage prayer, or participate in such activities with students."

So individuals can pray themselves stupid as they desire but the school cannot encourage, discourage or participate in said prayer...

I cannot fathom why anyone would want to force their prayers on others. I suppose that whole bit about praying quietly and not making a spectacle of it is just another bit of the Bible that is routinely ignore so you guys can see who can out Jesus the other guy?

A.R.

2:59 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

http://www2.ed.gov/policy/gen/guid/religionandschools/letter_20030207.html

This is from the Department of Education on the Federal level. Students can get together to pray, but it cannot come from teachers, admin, etc... They are to remain unbiased.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

7:56 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

AR- Just another example of the Feds interfering in a State issue. Why is it that Federal law can be ignored in regards to immigration, but not when it comes to the religious freedoms of actual Americans?

Comment_arrow

Floyd Akridge

9:57 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Beautiful Mike...simply beautiful

JK

4:46 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

You know, this is just stupid. If you don't like people praying, leave America and move to some dictatorship where they will shoot you for it! I remember praying in school every day. Heck, my first grade teacher read us Bible stories for children every morning to start off our class when I lived in St. Petersburg, FL.....and it wasn't THAT long ago!!

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris

5:58 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Sorry Jim. That's what it's come to in this beautiful mixing pot we call the United States of America. I also remember prayer as a kid and the pledge of allegiance everyday in class. It's a new age. The age of Political Correctness and unfortunately, we can deal with it or we can "leave America and move to some dictatorship where they will shoot you for it".

Comment_arrow

Racer X

8:07 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Chris- This is NOT a beautiful mixing pot. This is the South and it should be respected. I would also disagree that this is the age of PC. The age of PC is passing because people who have strong beliefs, in anything, are sick of being asked to assimilate to outsiders.

JK

6:27 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

Chris, you are correct, but it never hurts to remember what made our country the greatest nation in the world. In these times of trouble, I would hope that people could learn from the past, and not just wish for it.
Actually, prayer at a sporting event should be for the players health, not that the team 'comes out victorious' or that 'the greater love for You will prevail'. Both teams are saying the same prayer. What should God do, flip a coin? And saying the Lord's Prayer before a game? What if I am Jewish, or agnostic, or Druid? The stupid part is that it is such a NEWS!! item.

Reply

CATHY

11:05 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

I THINK EVERYTHING STARTED GOING DOWN THE TUBES WHEN PRAYER WAS REMOVED FROM SCHOOLS...THIS IS STILL A FREE COUNTRY AND PRAYER HAS BEEN PART OF EVERYTHING FROM THE START...IF YOU DON'T LIKE HOW WE LIVE... GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM AND LET THIS CHRISTIAN COUNTRY ALONE

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris

11:25 pm on Sunday, September 9, 2012

CATHY, you just need to keep in mind that our Freedom Of Religion gives us a right to worship any God we choose without persecution. I consider myself a Christian and my God is the father of Jesus Christ but if my neighbor (fellow school attendant) believes that his God is someone completely different, he too has that same freedom of religion without persecution. I wouldn’t want my family to sit through a prayer before every game, to a God I felt was non-existent. Nor would I want to sit through several prayers before each game to cover all supported religions.

Everyone has the right to pray as a group or pray independently in public but the school has not the right to force me to pray with other beliefs.

As far as "GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM AND LET THIS CHRISTIAN COUNTRY ALONE", what makes you think and say such a thing in a country that celebrates freedom of religion? Other than your ALL CAPS, you seem to be very ignorant. Not being mean, just saying that you need to learn about which you speak. Perhaps we all need to learn more.

Comment_arrow

Racer X

6:41 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Chris- A prayer before the God of the majority does not disrespect other religions. Religions in the minority should accept the culture of a particular region and show some understanding instead of trying to make them assimilate to them.
How about you leave Cathy alone. You have no right or basis to call her ignorant.

Comment_arrow

Chris

8:15 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Is this Mike talking this morning or his drink? I have lived in Georgia all my life and this has nothing to do with "Southern culture". Personally, I am fine with prayer before a High School game but apparently some other Americans are not. CATHY mentions that this is a free country and then suggests that if you don't like how we live, you can leave. Well which is it? Maybe ignorant wasn't a strong enough term. As I mentioned, I wasn't trying to be mean yet informative. Now you too suggest that someone move if they don't like the constitution. If the prayer over the loud speaker were addressed to Satan, I am going to assume that there would be an outrage as well.

Comment_arrow

Racer X

9:40 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

If one High School had gone to play a another school where the majority of kids were Satan worshipers, I suppose they would need to respect their right to a moment for prayer. Hopefully, as with every pre-game prayer I have witnessed, the prayer would be about protecting the players, all of them and convey a positive message.
That said, a school full of Satan worshipers would need a prayer for protection as I have never met a Satan worshiper who was much of an athlete and they would likely get their posteriors handed to them.
Do you have a better example you could give me?

Comment_arrow

Chris

9:53 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

No Mike. No more examples. You clearly have you mind set that things should be as you see fit. Unfortunately, life doesn't work that way. You also remark that the age of Political Correctness is passing. Are you serious? What do you think we're talking about here? Think what you want to pal but your opinion of how things Should Be, looses in this case. You don't have to like it and I don't either but we can either deal with it or choose to not attend. If if you aren't satisfied with that answer, please tell me what you plan to do to fix it? I can't wait to hear.

Keith

12:37 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

I've notified ACLJ to get involved. They fight bullies like this Wisconsin group.
http://aclj.org/get-legal-help/get-our-legal-help

Reply

Athens Mama

12:52 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

I am a Christian and raise my children as such. We pray together most every morning. However, I have been embarrassed for our friends who are Jewish, Buddist, or other religions when Christmas trees, Santa Claus, and red and green are the only religious symbols that can be viewed around a school. If you're going to represent one religion, you must represent them all. It's better just to have a moment of silence, where circles of individuals may pray as they wish. In my school, we have a moment of silence every morning. Students can see me bow my head, and close my eyes to pray, but there is nothing said out loud that would alienate students of a different religion. Public schools are paid for by the state and federal governments. There is a separation of church and state, because in the United States of America, there is a freedom of religion established by our forefathers. Moments of silence are cool - public prayer over the intercoms are not.

Reply

Racer X

6:35 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

I generally believe in separation of Church and State as well. I am from Philadelphia and prayer at public events in the South took some getting used to. However, in the time I have lived in the South I have learned they have their own way of doing things.
Over time, I have learned that this is the best part of the country to live in because of the way they do things. I LOVE the South and my life here and wouldn't change a thing.
People need to show more respect for Southern culture and, as Cathy says, move somewhere else if you don't like it.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Elizabeth

4:05 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Thank you, Mike. From your comments about the South, it seems while you were not born in the South, you got here as quickly as you could, and you have found your home.

BigCountry

9:55 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

I choose to live under government if I did't I would move to a foreign country or be Amish. I don't mind paying for my protection against radical people who think their way is "The Way".I'm a country boy.born and raised in the south with sense. Love my southern food and my Chevy.The racist and radical southerns want southern culture to be -if your not like me something is wrong with you.Whether it be religion or the color of skin.Being southern doesn't make you have the right to force your beliefs and biases on other people.Forcing a religion down somebody's throat is dead wrong.Whether it be in school or in public.I see why we created separation of state and church,which was a very smart thing to do because the world doesn't evolve around "southern culture"or any other culture & moving forward means growth not declination, not ignorance upon ignorance,but tolerance of another person's denomination.Like someone else said Christians would go wild if southern born Muslims, Hinduists and Buddhists start praying out loud in the schools respecting their individual southern cultures. What do you mean respect for "Southern culture" What you're really saying is respect and give control to a bias concept. Muslims pray five times a day if not more.I wonder what would happen if it was allowed in the schools.oh my bad.They shouldn't be allowed to pray out loud only Christians.Yes, Athens Mama the moment of silence is the best and diplomatic thing to do. I respect my Muslim friends.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

10:53 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

BigCountry- The question above is: Should the Wisconsin company be able to bring suit against a Georgia school for prayer before sporting events?
That is the subject I am referring to.
We are not discussing whether prayer should be allowed during school hours. That is a whole other subject. I think that students who wish to pray, no matter their religion should be allowed to do that whenever they want. Praying before a sporting event is simply a Southern tradition and is in no way a condemnation of anyone else's beliefs.
Most of my friends who are not Christians don't mind and just give those that are a moment to do so, out of consideration.
Nobody wants to "make" anyone else pray.
If I went to a Charter School game that was predominantly Muslim, I would fully expect and respect the traditions of that school as well.
A nice prayer, no matter the religion, for the good of everyone, can do no harm. That's all I'm saying.

Comment_arrow

Steve R.

11:17 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Mike Horsman, I am interested where you get your facts about southern culture.

Comment_arrow

Racer X

12:05 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Steve R- I married a 4th generation Southern girl who's Great Grandmother was a Cherokee so her family line actually goes back much further.
Also, though originally from Philadelphia, I have lived here and worked among Southerners for over 20 years and have found Southern living to be quite pleasant. Because of this, I have developed a real interest in Southern perspective. It turns out to be a lot different from that taught to me in my Northern education.
So, I read anything I can get my hands on regarding the South, both fiction and non-fiction.
Please understand, I am no expert (on anything). I just know it takes a lot more than just living here all your life to be a Southerner. People who cast stones at them are being just as intolerant as those who claim intolerance on their part. Sure, there are rednecks and idiots here, just like anywhere else. But if you show a good Southerner a little respect, you will generally be treated very graciously.
I mean no disrespect to anyone.

Floyd Akridge

9:59 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

Does anyone here know where separation of church and state came from? Just curious.

Reply

Steve R.

10:10 am on Monday, September 10, 2012

The topic: "Was it Right to Force a Ban of Prayer Before a High School Game?"

Yes!

Reply

bill valentine

12:04 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

i am 62 years old.an army vet.i can see our country failing before my eyes.how can 1 person cause us not to have prayer? no ten commandmants?and no morals?.there are several large cities in america that block their streets daily to let muslims pray at certain hours of the day.when you take God our of our daily lives then you have give up any hope of ever having peace,happiness,joy,love and hope.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

12:20 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Bill, Thanks for serving our country. You are not alone. I have a good friend who is 86 years old and was a combat soldier during WWII. He is one of the best and bravest men I have ever known and watching what is happening to our country is breaking his heart. You, he and men and women like you deserve better.

bill valentine

12:20 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

why does all the trouble come from up north? ever see anyone from the south retiring and move north? yes the north won the civil war.now please get over it.i can and will pray to my God anytime of any day!

Reply

Larry Reid

2:01 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

No question in my mind that those who would want to ban prayer before a high school game also vote democrat. Obama and the democrats made their feelings about God and Jerusalem very clear during their convention.

Reply
Comment_arrow

George Wilson

4:33 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@Larry Reid
We send Israel 3 biilion dollars a year in aid,Would you be in favor of cutting back on this or at least reducing given our debt problems?By the way ,the Republicans in Georgia have cut 5 biliion out of the state budget for education.Just curious.

Comment_arrow

George Wilson

4:42 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@Larry Reid (Correction)
The Republicans have cut education by 5 billion over the last ten years. Given their zeal for charter and private schools, I guess you first have to first destroy it (public education) before you save it.

Comment_arrow

Larry Reid

4:50 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Our government spends $10 billion a day George. $4 billion for interest payments. A large amount of that is due to your boy and the devastation he is bringing our economy. I have no problem supporting an ally in the Middle East. We should cut out the terrorist regions and send more to Israel. As for education in Georgia, we get lousy results from our educational system. We need to completely cut out the Department Of Education. Look at Chicago right now. Throwing money at it has never helped a thing.

Comment_arrow

George Wilson

5:07 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Larry Reid
"Little leaks can sink a big ship"-Ben Franklin
So you want to spend our money on things you think are important but not on those things you don't like or that I might consider more important.Is that your consistant logic?Just trying to understand.

Comment_arrow

R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"

5:34 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Maybe if we were to ask Israel nicely they could give US some tips on how to handle our borders better…

That would be the BEST 3 BILLION we could spend.

Comment_arrow

Larry Reid

5:45 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Yes George. I think we should focus our efforts and treasure on Allies that agree that Iran is dangerous with nuclear weapons. I also think we need to stop wasting money on the UN and the Department of Education and any global warming stupidity.

So yes, I would like to see money spent on things I consider more important. Is that easy enough for you to understand? Perhaps you have another way of rationalizing US debt. Clearly you do as you boast about your support for president who is intent on destroying the US economy.

Rethinknow

2:08 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Southern politeness? When it comes to religious tolerance? Are you kidding?

What do you think all of the business about no alcohol in Gwinnett was all about? It had everything to do with religion. You apparently don’t live in Lilburn. Now, there is an example of Southern politeness when it comes to religion. Go to the city website http://www.cityoflilburn.com/ Read the center section with the heading NEWS. Now there’s something to be proud of. The City Council showing their version of Southern Politeness when it comes to religion cost the Lilburn taxpayer a whole lot of money. And it will take years for the reputation of Lilburn to be repaired.

Anyone that pretends there would be tolerance of a Muslim prayer in a government sponsored venue here, in the land of Southern Politeness is kidding themselves or thinking none of us can hear, see or read.

Why do the Feds have to stick their nose into our business? Oh, I don’t know why don’t we ask some of the folks that were around in the late 50’s and early 60’s. Or maybe ask some of the relatives of Mary Turner 1918 Eight Months Pregnant.

Reply
Comment_arrow

bill valentine

2:46 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

to respond to you is almost like talking to a telephone pole.you mention lilburn and mention drinking....well i do not live anywhere near lilburn and i am a recovering achololic.why did you not mention all the tax payers money spent every day on protecting muslims rights to pray in open public streets? i can tell who you voted for last election.might as well vote for him again.god bless you .aint it great to have the right to agree to disagree?

Comment_arrow

Rethinknow

3:27 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Well Bill, you would be very wrong. I have been a life long Republican and have never voted for a Dem.

I didn’t say I supported making it legal to sell alcohol now did I? I simply pointed out that, what used to be called blue-laws where brought about by organized religion. And to further say I honestly believe NOTHING good ever happens in a bar!

And I truly admire your strength... It's been 8 years for me.

And in terms of Lilburn and the attitude toward other religion, you had to have witnessed it. It was a (pathetic) sight to behold in the 21st century.

And yes it is federal money (our money) that pays for the protection of all of our citizens… including when we sent the National Guard into all of those Polite Southern communities, years back.

Comment_arrow

R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"

5:41 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

WHOA on that mosque vote comment…

The area was one poor place for the zoning use that was originally requested for the land by the group.

Any other denomination couldn’t have gotten it through nor should they have, the DOJ’s involvement was well out of line and way too costly to fight…

Rethinknow

2:40 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

This took seconds doing a Google search
“where did the term separation of church and state originate”

Thomas Jefferson's 1802
http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/who2.htm

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

Reply

George Wilson

2:45 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@all
I find it amusing that you so called conservatives would compel a non believer and people of other faiths to engage in state sponsored prayer. I think I'll send a check to the ACLU to help them continue the fight against this non sense. But wait ,its election time and its good for the Republicans to drag out all if these wedge issues to divert the peoples attention. I'll tell you something about southern people ,race and religion always work to keep these people in line.

Reply
Comment_arrow

bill valentine

2:55 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

just go ahead and send the check to the aclu.they will defend anyone or anything thats immoral,nasty,obscene or does not believe in God! p.s. i do not think the donatation is a tax rite-off.

Comment_arrow

Larry Reid

3:01 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Well all of those pretty much describe George.

Like I said. Democrat!

Comment_arrow

George Wilson

4:51 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@bill valentine
The American Civil Liberties Union is an organization devoted to defending the US Constitution.Even if it is unpopular. Lets not forget that the worst tyranny is the tyranny of the majority and the constitution protects the minority liberties as well.

Racer X

3:05 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

You gotta hand it to George, he is the only lefty in this blog willing to use his real name. I suppose the rest are just ashamed.
People are not engaged in prayer unless they actually pray. Nobody is being forced to do anything. Why is it that those in the minority cannot be as tolerant as they ask those in the majority to be? There is NOTHING wrong with allowing folks that want to pray a moment to do so.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Rethinknow

3:40 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Yes, George is brave. However if anyone thanks that there aren’t consequences to speaking your mind using your real name your wrong. If you disagree with the group in power, there are consequences for sure.

And you are absolutely right regarding (some) minorities being intolerant. What lit my fuse was the comment about Southern Politeness and attaching it to religious tolerance, here, in the south.

Comment_arrow

Chris

4:03 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

"If you disagree with the group in power, there are consequences for sure."

What does that mean?

Comment_arrow

George Wilson

5:00 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@Mike Horsman
What is the defintion of tradition?Shouldn't some traditions be changed because they are outdated,bad.,not useful,etc.

Grant

3:51 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Why is this so hard for people to understand?

Individual prayers at a public school or anywhere in the US is perfectly legal. Knock yourselves out please pick up the snakes/spaghetti/prayer mats when you have finished

School sanctioned prayer to one god or the other is NOT allowed aka blasting the Jesus over the PA at a public school function is illegal, not to mention unbelievably rude.

Reply
Comment_arrow

bill valentine

4:22 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

i have never heard of anyone blasting the name of jesus over any school intercom.however if you ,"a minority,"is against it or just dont want to hear it.just cover your ears.example.....some people love to feel the rush of a mighty wind in their ears.some dont.so if it bothers anyone then you go inside.loud talking in school was very annoying to me however i could only walk away. also remember the upcomming election.please vote and also remember this"majority vote wins".no more crying after its all over.

Comment_arrow

Grant

4:35 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Bill,

The US Constitution and the Supreme Court called and they beg to differ with you . No one should be forced to endure state sponsored or sanctioned religious wharrgarbll..
If state sponsored religion is your thing the folks in Saudi Arabia will be glad to have you , assuming you are willing to abide by their beliefs..

O and BTW, as it pertains to the presidential election majority vote does not necessarily "win" . Ask Al Gore..

Rethinknow

4:17 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Chris if I went into detail then all would know. I'm not being a paranoid fool. I have seen it occur. Pick the political or philosophical position you choose and if it's not what the group in power is or believes you will have consequences. I know people in the community who are recipients of those consequences.

Reply

Rethinknow

4:59 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Mike Horsman
Neither do I think there is anything fundamentally wrong with a prayer before an event. I simply have seen the results of many who say they are OK with other religions but in practice they are not. And that's where the group in power (aka Good Old Boys and now Girls) come in. Read the statements made in areas that have mosques that want to be built or made bigger. The "local" people will give you every reason imaginable for not building one or expanding one. And that power group will spend a pile of our money supporting reasons that are so disingenuous we would ground our kids for such stories.

Reply

Karsten Torch

5:45 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

OK, anybody that wants to call me a liberal or democrat for what I'm about to say, feel free. You may look like kind of a fool when you do it, but go ahead...

Any school or public entity allowing it's media system to be used to have a prayer is in violation of the Constitution. You can have a moment of silence, in which people could pray if they so desire, or have the students organize themselves to pray if they wish, but don't use the speaker system to do so. There's no way you can be inclusive by doing that. We all know we were founded by a religious people, and if you don't know that, note the reference to God in our Constitution, in a myriad other places, and in every state constitution for our country. BUT, they were also persecuted by the government they left and broke from, so they wanted to take steps to ensure that didn't happen again. Hence the freedom OF religion, not the freedom FROM religion. Significant difference, that. Makes that group in Wisconsin look kind of silly, truth be told.

That being said, this PC crap annoys the hell out of me, and the spinelessness of our 'leaders' really annoys me. Did anybody make note of the Grayson library recently that hosted a local artist that happened to do artwork of a Christian nature? Think it was monks or something depicted....

Reply
Comment_arrow

Karsten Torch

5:48 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Some Jewish lady that went into the library said she felt 'excluded.' So they took down the display. Really? She should have been told to petition for having some local Jewish artist be represented. Or, what she really should have done if she felt that way was to petition for all religions to be represented together. Which still would have been ridiculous. We need to stop looking for things to be offended by.

Comment_arrow

Grant

8:20 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Karsten writes

"We all know we were founded by a religious people, and if you don't know that, note the reference to God in our Constitution, in a myriad other places, and in every state constitution for our country"

THE reference to God in the Constitution? Really? I have to assume you are talking about the usual and customary 18th century use of the term "year of our Lord" that was actually added /modified AFTER the Convention had approved the document.?http://www.philipvickersfithian.com/2011/05/us-constitution-and-year-of-our-lord.html
Same battle different century, some ridiculous idiot felt the need to attempt to insert his religion into the government .
Tammy , whane the prayer is being barfed out over the state run public school PA system it is "state sponsored and sanctioned " prayer which is clearly illegal and has been upheld as such by dozens of court cases.
Of course those that feel that their religion needs to be rudely blasted at everyone wont ever quit trying

Tammy Osier

6:16 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

f I went to a Charter School game that was predominantly Muslim, I would fully expect and respect the traditions of that school as well.
Agreed Mike. When in Rome... Seems like we're a little more tolerant than those who call us intolerant.

Of course, it's the Georges that like to tell you what you really think. lol And speaking of George.... had to comment on his use of the word "state sponsored prayer". Now, just where did that come from? You just make it up as you go along, don't you. Nowherein any of this has anyone said that the state "sponsored" anything. Even if they did, the ystill wouldn't be being unconstitutional. The constitution *sigh* says that c-o-n-g-r-e-s-s can't mandate it. End of discussion (of course, it wount be b/c you'll spend 2 pages defending yourself with more made up stuff...).
What really kills me is that no one from the school complained, just someone from the outside minding someone elses business.

Reply
Comment_arrow

BigCountry

6:24 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Wake up call Tammy@ When in Rome do like the Romans. I guess you are suggesting . Americans are all Christians...oops you're wrong again. Actually there are more and more Americans converting to Muslims....hmmmmm I wonder what would cause them to do such a thing. I'm sure it's not the behavior or others..I don't have the fondest clue

Comment_arrow

Athens Mama

9:06 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

I keep hearing this scenario of a Muslim charter school. Tell me, just when and where in the state of Georgia is that EVER GOING TO HAPPEN, y'all? Really, all of you. Suggest a feasible scenario.

BigCountry

6:20 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@Bill. what you say sounds so ignorant. Like someone else said it is not the schools responsibility to teach a certain religion. Not allowing prayer outloud at school or functions is not taking "God out of your life" it's respecting others. During the moment of silence, children are allowed to pray to whomever they pray too. Children don't normally tell you what religion their family practices. To take a child by the hand and say we will have prayer now, and then pray to your God may be causing conflict or confusion within a child or their home. According to Muslims, Mohammad is the prince of peace., and to Christians Jesus is.. So what does peace, happiness, joy, love and hope have to do with anything because of making prayer more personal and private at school? Yes, It was right to force a band on prayer before the high school game. And in reference to the blocking the streets, let's not get too silly. They block the street because of the traffic just like they do on Sunday's when Christians go to church...Wow ignorance is bliss.. I just saw a sign at a Baptist Church the other day saying "God said be religious fruit, not religious Nuts!"..this stuff some of us is saying is becoming quite embarrassing. People don't get it. Nobody is causing anyone to NOT HAVE PRAYER...IT's actually allowing everyone the freedom to have their own type of prayer!

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

7:39 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

BigCountry- How about getting off Bill's case? You and all the other far left better study up a little more on Islam. You are giving our Country away. The same Country that Bill has served. My Country.
The Koran and subsequential Islamic writings are riddled with calls to kill ALL Christians and Jews. Say what you want, in the bible God doesn't ask any of us to kill each other (Though I will concede he has indeed been capable of some mighty smiting himself).
I once had a Muslim customer, with whom I enjoyed excellent rapport, tell me that if his Mosque told him to kill me, he would do it without a second thought. You, sir, are barking up the wrong tree on this issue.

Comment_arrow

Grant

8:35 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Mike...
I think you should read your Bible again.. I'd also suggest actually reading the Koran before casting aspersions on the beliefs of others
You write
"Say what you want, in the bible God doesn't ask any of us to kill each other"
Joshua 10:40,Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Deuteronomy 7:1-3 ,1 Sam 15:1-3 ,Numbers 31:15-18 ,Hosea 13:16

Let me know if you need more references Mike

Comment_arrow

Racer X

9:08 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Grant- I promised Steve R I would not post any more on this thread but since you are addressing me I feel I should. You are right, the old testament makes several references to killing non-Christians
I should have specifically referred to the Bible I was raised on, the New Testament. My apologies for my lack of clarity. Christianity has evolved over the last 2000+ years. Can you show me evidence that Islam has as well? I really do want to like everyone and will welcome your input.

Comment_arrow

Grant

9:35 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Mike,
Sorry to drag you back into the discussion.
Every religion has it's extremists, and to sully anorth's faith because you dont understand their beliefs or to project the bad acts of extremists that arent actually supported in the Islamic Holy text upon the entire belief system amounts to ignorance. It would be similar to someone equating the Westboro Baptist folks to all of Chrisitanity.
The Koran is no more (or less) violent than the Bible and it has far fewer references to foreskins . Both books are loaded with slavery ,killing,adultery , rape genocide etc etc.. They should come with warning labels
They also both espouse peace and even tolerance of others, to suggest one text is different from another is indicative of ignorance.
109:1 Say: O disbelievers!
109:2 I worship not that which ye worship;
109:3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
(109:6)"Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion."

As for "evolving" who are we to judge the practice of other's religion? What we should be learning from other countries where religious extremists control the government is what a bad idea that is and we should ALL be working towards total separation of church and state for the good of both institutions

Racer X

7:09 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Allah told Mohammed to behead his critics, to kill the Jews and the Christians, to torture and stone people to death, to rape and to keep sex slaves (this is how he met his wife, Safia), and to spread his “religion of peace” by the sword, until the entire world submits to Islam. And today, this mandate of forcing the world to submit to Islam, remains in place.

Reply

j. s.

7:24 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

What part of "it's against the law" don't you understand? Public schools cannot have organized prayer. It is against Federal law. If you want your child to have rights to pray in school and be led by his or her teacher, send your child to a private religious school. Done.

Reply

Tammy Osier

7:37 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

"If I went to a Charter School game that was predominantly Muslim, I would fully expect and respect the traditions of that school as well."
Big Country please don't try to speak what you "think" I said. Reread it. I said if I happened across something that was strictly muslim, I wouldn't be offended, I would either be respectfully quiet, or find something else to do. My point was that I'm not going to crucify someone for doing something that have a right to do. Are you related to George by any chance?

Reply

BigCountry

7:40 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

I'm not sure if people are forced to become Muslim "by the sword". don't know why different prophets where told to do different things in different times and different books nor do I speculate or judge much in what others translate or interpret from the words in different books. I just go on facts. Many Americans are converting and I don't see them forced by a sword.

Reply

Frank Church

8:30 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

I really don't know what is happening to the christians out there. They can pray anywhere and anytime they want to. and for someone to stand in the way of that number one can go streight to H*ll. And for the admin they need to grow a pair of chawongies. And Chris this is OUR AMERICA. I fought on 1968-1972 USMC and I am not going to have that 4 years of my life wasted for Atheist stupity This country was built by GOD's people and it is going to stay that way,one way or another. We even print it on our money......IN GOD WE TRUST...And that better stay there too.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris

8:46 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Frank, I've only stated facts to my knowledge and although I haven't read every post here, i haven't seen any mention of atheists. That's not the point to the original question. In God we trust doesn't mention a specific God. Does it? That's what gives us freedom of religion. So what's your problem again?

Comment_arrow

George Wilson

10:24 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@FrankChurch
We put In "God We Trust" on our money because of the hysterical breakdown we had in the fifties over the communist menace. Something right wingers put in and weak politicians rolled over for.That is the only reason. itis on our money.

Comment_arrow

Chris

10:53 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Not exactly true George although your version is colorful. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Comment_arrow

George Wilson

10:09 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

@Chris
Thanks for the correction on the money. It was the pledge of allegiance instead.

ed-words

8:38 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

JUDGES have been given the power to decide questions like
this.

And that's in da Constatooshun!

Reply

Tammy Osier

8:40 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Mike and BC, my son was in Iraq and got to know this culture up close and personal. He was there when they captured Saadam Hussein. He met many USA loving muslims who just wanted true peace, but he also saw the propaganda used by their leaders against the people to cause them to hate us (Guess which NY paper was in the stash?). He also heard eye witness testimonies of people whose brothers and loved ones were slashed to pieces and killed by Hussein for daring to turn in killers etc... No, that doesn't happen here. Makes you appreciate your freedom. But then we have political correctness gone wild...

Reply

Ruth Walker

8:45 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Public prayer at school-sponsored functions is inappropriate, but perhaps you are not aware that you should want it stopped because religious people vary in how closely they want to follow even their own teachings. To choose prayers for a group is almost certainly going to offend someone in that group. (Of course Christians would rather follow the Golden Rule than do that.)

Far too few are even aware that there is no god in the Constitution of the United States of America, the creator stated as the giver of our rights in the Declaration of Independence is "Nature and Nature's God" (not the jealous god of the bible), and Jesus taught not to flaunt religion in public and to pray in private.(Matthew 6)

Similarly, although Governor Romney is flat wrong in stating that President Obama is trying to remove IN GOD WE TRUST from our money, I remember that when Congress voted to require it be added, many religious Americans considered it grossly irreverent, quoting 1 timothy 6:10...

"For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, and in their eagerness to be rich some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pains."

Our government is not supposed to favor any religion, but observant Jews even avoid writing any Name of God casually because of the risk that the written Name might later be defaced, obliterated or destroyed accidentally or by one who does not know better.

Reply

Tammy Osier

8:47 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Maybe Frank should have a conversation with a few folks on here...lol
Frank, even though Hooah is my victory cry of choice, I'll give you a big OOOooorah for that post.

Reply

Athens Mama

9:12 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

@Mike Horsman, I know you embrace Southern culture. I was born here in Georgia, but I don't embrace all facets of "Southern culture." Let's be real. Southern culture, to the tune of less than 200 years ago, included subjecting people to slavery. We fought like hell to keep those people slaves, and there are still people promoting the "heritage" of that fight to keep slavery intact. You can go take a stroll over to the Taylor Grady house on Prince Avenue any day of the week and get a sense of just what slavery bought for certain individuals here in the South. It's time to get with the national program of religious tolerance and making sure that federal and state tax dollars are spent on elements that EVERYONE can enjoy, not just Christians. When you say that people just learned to give a moment for Christian prayer in a publicly funded domain - that's not how it is meant to be. If I want to hear a Christian prayer, I'll be happy to go to church, not to the basketball game in a public school.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

10:00 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

AM- Enslavement of another human being is always wrong. Slavery was not a Southern problem, it was an American problem. Please keep in mind that the South did not "fight like hell to keep those people slaves", most Southerners never owned a slave and many from mountainous areas had never even seen a Black person. They fought like hell for their economic freedom from the North, no matter what they told you in "school".
Do you actually believe that all those thousands of Southern men marched into battle to die so they could preserve Slavery? Most of whom never owned a slave? Pitiful. Lincoln himself was a racist. Though you were born here in Georgia I would wager your parents were not.
If you want to point your finger at modern proponents of slavery, there are a lot more factual targets you can choose.
I really can't believe I have allowed myself to get dragged this far into a silly debate about praying before a ball game.
I'm out folks, gotta work early, fire away.
Good night Mr, Valentine, Mr. Church and Ms. Osier.

Athens Mama

10:05 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

My parents and I were all born in Georgia. We have lived most of our lives elsewhere, but my entire family on both sides originates in Georgia. "their economic freedom from the North." Upon just what was the economy of the South based?

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

10:45 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

OK, Darn it, then I'm going to bed. First, congrats on your lineage. The economy of the South was based mostly on Agriculture, yes, there were slaves on many Agricultural Plantations. It is a fact, though, that the Southern Economy would still have been based on agriculture without slaves (albeit not on quite as large a scale) who, by the way, were delivered to them by Northern merchants and sold to Northern merchants by people who were, let's say, not White.
In 1860 some 3,000 Blacks owned 20,000 slaves in the US. In South Carolina alone Black slaveholders owned 10,000 slaves. Kind of an inconvenient side note.
In a letter to Horace Greeley, editor of the New York Tribune, on August 22, 1862, Lincoln himself wrote, “My paramount objective in this struggle is to save the Union and is not either to save or destroy slavery." I also have several quotes regarding Blacks that put Lincoln in a VERY bad light no matter who you are.
Again, slavery of another human being is always wrong, but it was an American problem, not just a Southern problem.
As wrong as slavery was, it played a very small role in the motives for the Civil War. Thank God we have all evolved, no offense, and good night.

Nurse Ratchet

10:12 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Ask Romney and Ryan where they stand on the huge VA benefit cuts in the Romney-Ryan budget. VETERANS BEWARE...Ryan has cut VA benefits and the Senate has voted it through. Republican desperately need their Congressional candidates to win in order for them to pass this bill in the House, They only need a hand full of seats. Altschuler is the key link. Read the NY Times today. Take your time, it's a bit complicated, which is what Romney and Ryan hoped for, so us veterans wouldn't be able to understand it. It comes down to one thing and one thing only: Both Romney and Ryan must tell the truth to veterans "There are NO CUTS in the Ryan Budget to VA benefits" or they're lying to us. The NYTimes and Congressional Budget Office make it clear...HUGE CUTS have been made. Read the article: http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/edsall-the-ryan-sinkhole/?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20120910

Let Romney and Ryan deny it. We HAVE read the article all the way through and it was the Romney Campaign that has sent a mumbo-jumbo of non-denial denials.

Reply

Steve R.

10:17 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Mike Horsman, in your 22 comments here today, you have mentioned God, Allah, Buddha, Christians, Muslim, Southerners, Slavery, Mohammed, Cherokee, Satan worshipers, Black person, Koran, Jews and Islam.

Nowhere were any of these terms mentioned in this article, the Foxnews article, nor the Foxnews video. The subject is about school sanctioned prayer. Period.

Reply

Tammy Osier

10:50 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

George. Would you rather have "in government we trust?" I can only guess that you are just a child. If you only knew why we needed to differentiate ourselves from the godless communist nations you wouldn't mock it (mocking being childish in itself). We are born with our God-given rights to freedom- government cannot take those rights away. The government is not our god or master. It was for them. Good luck with that if you ever find yourself living under those circumstances. None of those countries ever fought to free themselves- it took this godly nation to go beyond and set them free.

Reply
Comment_arrow

George Wilson

4:01 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

@Tammy
How do you like living under multi-national corporations that tend to be godless with no loyalty towards the United States?

Comment_arrow

Larry Reid

4:36 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

George, are you talking about Obama again? Hopefully he won't be a corporation much longer.

Tammy Osier

10:57 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

The communist hoo-haa (as you'd probably refer to it) had to do with being one nation, under God...in the pledge to the flag.

Reply

BigCountry

11:29 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012

Mike is correct Most southerns didn't own slaves, but most slaves were owned by Southerns and there was a lot of slaves. It just doesn't make much sense for Northerns to own more slaves. for what? Most cotton plantations were in the south. It was the hottest in the south and most farms were in the South too. And wasn't slavery illegal in the North for most states. I don't claim to know everything about this, but I do know a little about southern history. Didn't the underground railroad lead to up North?. I don't think the school books were all false

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

9:34 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

BigCountry- Slavery was not illegal in the North, in fact, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them. William T. Sherman (burned Atlanta) had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.
U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn't free his slaves earlier, Grant stated "Good help is so hard to come by these days." Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased - they were inherited) in 1862, several years before the war was over.
Slavery of another human being is always wrong. This was a National problem. Luckily we evolved. Lincoln himself was still in the process of evolving when he was assassinated. Here is a very intelligent article that addresses this:
http://www.theroot.com/views/was-lincoln-racist

Comment_arrow

BigCountry

10:12 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Either way the hateful gesture of slavery is thrown in people's faces in the South with the confederate flag tags.I guess it's what some of us southerners try to claim as "southern culture" when really every one knows what's truly behind it. Why we want to remind another group of people of a painful time and create individual anger and separation between people we have to live with is beyond me. I can appreciate all cultures of people. I even shake my head sometimes to a little rap music.shame on me LOL. (I know I came off topic a little)

Comment_arrow

BigCountry

10:15 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

I like to try my self at Salsa every now and again too..(I know still off topic)

skeptic4321

3:06 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Prayer has no place in public schools.
For those undereducated in Constitutional Law- http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/schoolprayer.html
With respect to prayer in general-
why won't god heal amputees?
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/video8.htm

Reply

bill valentine

8:55 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

you write that prayer has no place in public schools. in public schools its in a confined area"not to be heard outside of building". but the muslims pray publicly out loud 2 times a day in american cities and their security"the local police" are paid for by us"the taxpayer"......can you explain why outsiders "those that are taught to kill",can do this at our expense? as for amputees,God did not do this to them.i am a nam vet and i saw it all.i never question God. those amputees will again one day have full use of their bodies when they meet their lord .if anyone hates america,God,or is against the morals we have had so long that have brought us this far,may i suggest you leave america and go to another country. DELTA IS READY WHEN YOU ARE. BILL.U.S.ARMY 68-71. JOINED NOT DRAFTED

Reply
Comment_arrow

Grant

9:03 am on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Bill ,

Seems you are still missing the point. Individual Muslims , Jews, Christians, Buddhists , Pastafarians and Satanists are welcome to pray individually as they so choose. You know , that who "free exercise" clause of the Constitution?
The "issues" arise only when the public state sponsored schools illegally engage in school sanctioned prayer.

I find it difficult to believe that you do not support the Constitutional rights of Americans to pray as they see fit

Bill Jager

1:49 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

What did Jesus say in Matt: 6:5-6? "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Also, keep in mind, the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion. “The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." — The Treaty of Tripoli, written during President George Washington's term, signed by President John Adams, and unanimously approved by the Senate.

Reply
Comment_arrow

bill valentine

3:01 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

bill jager, lets not stop with one verse.acts:4:24 says,when they heard this they raised their voices together in prayer to god."sovereign lord" they said"you made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them .1st thessalonians 5:17 says pray without ceasing.1st.timothy2:8 also says,i want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer without anger or disputing.james 5:16 also says therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.the prayer of a rightous man is powerfull and effective.

Comment_arrow

Grant

3:48 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

Mr Valentine,

Might I suggest Romans 13:1-5

" Let every person be subject to the governing authorities....

bill valentine

4:09 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

mr jager lets go on a bit. romans 13:1 says everyone must submit himself to governing authorities ,for there is no authority except that which god has established........i can go on but i suggest you post the whole 5 verses since you only posted a partial one.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Bill Jager

1:23 am on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Are you saying the Bible is contradictory? :)

Prayers before football games was settled a long time ago in GA and this school was breaking the law. http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/862/824/20114/

BigCountry

5:32 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

If you want to beat the bible...here you go: 1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.---

Not sure what it proves..but I don't think it proves Grant wrong if you're trying to use these versus as proof for the government to allow biases when it comes to the practice of religion. My grandma always told us that people will use the bible to brainwash, bless, and make a mess.don't think your aim with this is to bless people Bill..Enough is enough..Come on. Say it ain't so. Do you really know your beliefs and religion is the only one accepted by God? Let's get grounded and real. Bill, you are floating in a pink bubble.

Reply
Comment_arrow

bill valentine

5:46 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

big country....i dont really understand all what you just said.i need to hear it in laymens terms ,since im so un-educated.i was raised by my grandmother ,a god fearing woman.i dont know the bible as you do.im just a 62 year old fashion guy trying to live out my life.correct me if i am wrong on your stance..1,you are against prayer in school or public places? 2 you believe in another being,3 you suppoert obama. if im wrong then i am sorry .thanks for the posting.please pray for me and i will pray for you even if you dont wont me too. thanks again,your friend in jesus,bill

Comment_arrow

Bill Jager

4:24 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

I am not a Christian and I am wondering, is the words of Jesus more important in the Bible than that of Paul and other writers? Are Christians followers of Paul or Jesus? What did JESUS say in Matt 6: 5-6?

BigCountry

6:02 pm on Tuesday, September 11, 2012

My grandmother raised us too, and taught Bible school and taught us bible sense and common sense with it. She taught us to live and let others live, and I certainly do believe that God is only able to handle the world in his divine plan not man..in peace and prayer my friend. Big C

Reply

Racer X

6:52 am on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

For the record- The question the article asks is: "Was it right to force a ban......?" not, "Was it legal to force a ban.......?"
What is right and what is the law do not always go hand in hand.
The government is not the end all, be all in regards to right and wrong.
Nobody has ever answered the question: Why does enforcement of Federal law apply to this minor moral question, but not apply to immigration issues?
That, my friends, is.......not right.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Chris

6:59 am on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Still don't get it do you? WOW!

Comment_arrow

Racer X

8:26 am on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

No sir. You may take me wrong, I don't even go to church. I just believe everyone (yourself included) has a right to their opinion, especially those who have served our country like Mr. Valentine and Mr. Church. I simply value their opinion more than your own, nothing personal kiddo.

Comment_arrow

Grant

9:48 am on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Well Mike ...

If you wanna get all literal no one actually "forced a ban"...An organization , at the behest of some concerned parents, advised the school that it was indeed breaking the law . The school apparently realized that indeed they were breaking the law and, wisely, instead of risking costly legal wrangling chose to comply with the law and end the practice.
As it should be

Comment_arrow

Racer X

12:29 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Grant- "Advising" and threatening legal action are two very different things lad.

Comment_arrow

Grant

1:54 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Not really Mike ..
"How about advised that the practice is illegal and may face legal challenge if the situation is not rectified "

You like that better? In any case , the school was participating in an illegal activity , the matter was brought to their attention and they r4esponded accordingly..

Hallelujah and amen !

bill valentine

12:00 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

LETS SEE......PLEDGE TO THE AMERICAN FLAG? AGAINST THE LAW NOW IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.PRAYER? ALSO AGAINST THE LAW IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.BIBLES? AGAINST THE LAW IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS,HOWEVER MANDANTORY IN PRISONS.WILL WE BE FORCED TO TAKE DOWN ANY CROSS THAT IS ON ANY GRAVE IN ANY CEMENTARY IN AMERICA? HOW IS IT, WE, "THE MAJORITY"CAN HAVE ONE,YES I SAID 1,PERSON CRY LIKE A BABY TO THE A.C.L.U. ABOUT OUR BELIEFS THAT HAVE STOOD THE TEST MANY,MANY YEARS AND WE ARE NOW BREAKING THE LAWS EVERY WHERE? WHEN WILL THIS END? I THINK WE ALL KNOW.I WILL DIE FOR OUR BELIEFS AND RIGHTS THAN BOW DOWN TO ANTI-EVERYTHING THAT HAS NO MORALS. SATAN IS LAUGHING AND DANCING AS HE WATCHES US"AMERICANS"CRUMBLE BEFORE HIS FEET..AS FOR ME ,I WILL STAND FOR GOD AND AMERICA. ALWAYS HAVE,ALWAYS WILL....IF ANY OF YOU EVEN THINK IM PUSHING RELIGON DOWN YOUR THROATS WELL YOU ARE WRONG.SAD TO SAY I DO NOT ATTEND ANY CHURCH ON A REGULAR BASIS.

Reply

BigCountry

1:50 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

I commend you for fighting for our country. My uncle is a vet too,and his point-of-view in nothing close to yours. I just showed you Bill what the the bible scripture says, which you posted partially first. And you claim to go strictly by the bible with your emotions and stance..so why are you still angry?. Just come to terms with the fact that this is all you Bill and your feelings. It has nothing to do with what God says. And you say you will die for "our" beliefs and rights...Who is "our". Please note that all Americans don't think like you do before you decide to die for us. Bill I really do think you need to calm down and educate yourself more. Read a few books other than those given to you. No offense. And please don't listen to Mike. He'll have you upset and he apparently won't help you learn anymore than you already think you know. Peace to you. Big C

Reply

Grant

1:51 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Bill valentine writes

".PLEDGE TO THE AMERICAN FLAG? AGAINST THE LAW NOW IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS"
Actually Bill Georgia State Law requires students in public school be given the opportunity to recite the pledge. You should really have some idea what you are talking about before going off on an all caps rant .
Further any student that wants to read whatever Holy book he desires is not prevented from doing so in any public school

Reply
Comment_arrow

bill valentine

2:07 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

shhhh! be quiet. dont let the a.c.l.u. know this. they might try and take away the pledge. im am 62. seen alot taken away from us. and i need tell others that are posting that i am sometimes coufused as to whom is posting so please dont take me wrong.yes i do not have an education like the most of yah do. however i have made over a million in 4 years in the past.that was when times were great.i am retired and disabled and proud of the v.a.for taking care of me.i dont deserve it.only pulled 3 years in army.and my wife and i did lose all our life savings and more trusting in our goverment when we owned enron,and worldcom...thankyou all for being a friend and speaking your mind.i will everyone the best.....a tired old vet,.bill

Steve R.

2:06 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Mike Horsman
10:52 pm on Monday, September 10, 2012
"Yeah I know, crazy where these things go. The dang liberals steer you all over the place. I promise not to post anymore on this thread".

Reply
Comment_arrow

Grant

3:47 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Steve
I'm to blame for bring Mike back into the discussion as I directed a few questions at him ...

Comment_arrow

Racer X

10:38 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Grant- Thank you. That was unexpected and I appreciate it.

Comment_arrow

OICUR12

12:57 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012

Mike Horseman, might you consider laying off the vodka shakes that you claim to consume in morning hours? It is clear that you are often unsure of yourself. On two occasions in the past several days, you have apologized to other members and on a third instance, you promised "not to post anymore on this thread" (your words). You have frivolously posted 4 or 5 more times on this thread and you are now thanking Grant as if he had saved you somehow.
"Mike Horsman
10:38 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012
Grant- Thank you. That was unexpected and I appreciate it.

This is embarrassing. PLEASE, consider how this looks to all Patch readers in the future as you post arguments against Obama and for Republicans. Your posts are hurting your credibility and our fight against liberalism. Pause-then Post! Or not at all. PLEASE!

Comment_arrow

Racer X

7:16 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012

OICUR12- Dude, the Vodka shake gag was only in jest. For the record, I do not wish to post on this topic anymore. I have said my piece and read other's perspectives. When I am directly adrdessed, I feel the need to reply, as I use my real name here.
You don't seem to understand that it's not us against them. We are all Americans. You, in the far right, do as much to alienate moderate liberals as those on the far left who are alienating moderate conservatives. The 70% of moderates are being divided by the 15% at each end of the spectrum. Shame on us.
I don't agree with Grant's views but I can appreciate when someone does something nice, especially in this forum wrought with hate.
Being insulting does nothing for anyone. Doing so without attaching your real name doubly so.

Bill Jager

4:17 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

@ Mike Horsman,
Of course it was necessary to ban prayers that were sponsored by the school. Georgia lost that lawsuit in 1989 and your school was in violation ever since. It was a violation of the United States Constitution even before that. http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/862/824/20114/

Good to see the school finally following the law.

Reply
Comment_arrow

Racer X

11:05 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Bill- Why do you live in the South? Just wondering.

Larry Reid

5:02 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Bill Jager,
I believe you have made your opinion obvious to the patch community. You have been clear that you are not a Christian although you choose to quote the Christian bible. You have repeated your source and it is noted. Clearly everyone is, or should be by now, convinced that you are proud of your involvement seeing to it that this law is upheld. Is there any reason for you to continue repeating yourself? Please! No need to answer a rhetorical question.

If anyone is still uncertain: “Was it Right to Force a Ban of Prayer Before a High School Game?”, the legal answer is yes. Like it or not, as free Americans, we must remember that those among us may be sensitive with our worship as we may be with theirs. God Bless The USA!

Reply
Comment_arrow

Bill Jager

12:06 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012

Apparently not clear enough when public schools in Georgia continue to violate the law even after loosing a major lawsuit.

BigCountry

6:22 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Yes Larry the USA --all the people and different diversities of people and religions within it! Yes GOD Bless us All and all our people in foreign lands too! Amen

Reply

BigCountry

6:23 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

Can't argue with you on that one Larry..I agree!

Reply

Larry Reid

7:27 pm on Wednesday, September 12, 2012

To be clear, my previous comments were intended to address the Patch user “Bill Jager” registered to Loganville-Grayson Patch with the assumption that the Patch user “Bill Jager” was the aforementioned “William Jager” in the article linked from the Patch user “Bill Jager”.
I suggest that Anyone may create a Patch user name that hasn’t previously been chosen by Anyone else. This being said, Anyone could be using the name “Bill Jager” without actually being the “William Jager” in the article linked from the Patch user “Bill Jager”.

Reply

Bill Jager

12:03 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012

No assumption on my part Larry. :) and if I must prove who I am: https://www.facebook.com/bill.jager.5

Reply

Racer X

7:30 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012

Bill- I checked out your Facebook page. I know we are at odds on this topic but believe would likely agree on many other things. Thanks for serving our country and for showing some backbone. There are many on Patch, Left and Right, who hide behind their computers, throw rocks, and accomplish nothing.

Reply

CPJMSR

8:11 am on Thursday, September 13, 2012

No one is above the law. Countless suits have shown that it is unlawful to hold prayers in public schools. Public schools are for everyone, including those of different faiths, those with no faith, and those who could not care less about faith. If you would like your children to be in a school that supports their particular faith, enroll them in a private religious school.

Reply

skeptic4321

12:53 pm on Thursday, September 13, 2012

The only "Christian" concept, imo, that has any value is "do unto others." And this is not even uniquely Christian.
"Christian principles" include a virgin birth, resurrections, heaven/hell, judgment day, vicarious redemption via human sacrifice (predicated on animal sacrifice), magical thinking/prayer, imaginary friends/enemies, suppression of women's rights, homophobia, scientific illiteracy, etc. (and I think these may be contemporary Republican characteristics, too). You can believe these things all you want, but our government established by our secular Constitution (the only mention of god/religion in our Constitution is exclusionary) cannot favor one religion or sect over another or religion over non-religion. For this reason, prayers should not be said at government supported/publicly funded gatherings (and, imo, there shouldn't even be a moment of silence, as this, in reality, is promoting religion over non-religion and is always something Christians want to impose on others).
Think about it- ALL these things are instigated by Christians trying to impose their beliefs on others. If you Christians would stop trying to impose your beliefs, ideas, superstition/magical thinking, etc., on us non-Christians, perhaps we would stop throwing the BS flag at your Bronze Age mythology in tax payer supported/public forums.

Reply

skeptic4321

12:53 pm on Thursday, September 13, 2012

Finally, "In God We Trust" on paper money and "...,under god,..." in the pledge are products of the 1950's cold war and were not part of American history until the 1950's. "E Pluribus Unum" as the default motto and "..one nation, indivisable.." with no mention of a god were far better than the creeping Christian theocracy we have in America.

Reply

Leave a comment